TO THE DESCENDANTS:
The following pages may contain some inaccuracies, although I have tried to state as fact only things known. In each generation some whole families have been omitted--not intentionally, but because I have been unable to locate them.
If each reader will send me corrections which should be made in any part of my statements, and additions to the ancestors or descendants of either Henry Guthrie or John Lane Mason it will be greatly appreciated.
Also, especially appreciated will be information concerning the ancestors, brothers and sisters, and descendants of Henry Guthrie, Nancy Ann Shackleford, Isaac Mason and Parthena Hall.
Further information about Peter Deel and Sydney Snyder should also be interesting to all descendants of John Lane Mason and I will be glad to assemble any facts you readers can give me.
February 1, 1953 Mildred Murphy
The above was the first page of Mildred Murphy's book. Mildred had a stroke in the 1960's and was never able to work on the genealogy again. She died 10 November 1969 in Long Beach, California.
In order to get my own copy of this book I had to type it out (imagine, no copy machinesl). So I typed it on mimeo masters, added a few names and made 50 copies which were distributed. By doing this I became thoroughly hooked on genealogy and have spent several years gathering the information Mildred asked for. There are so many more sources available now.
I also ask for information, corrections and additions. They are fairly easy to feed into the computer. Note that numbers are changed from the original. Additional families have been discovered and many added in the new generations. I hope to be around for 5 or 10 years more, and if the Lewiston address doesn't find me the old one of Craigmont, ID surely will.
April 15, 1993
Margaret Nell Longeteig
415 Stewart Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
August 18, 1993 415
Stewart Ave,
Lewiston, ID 83501
Dear Larry;
That was an old note you found, we have lived in Lewiston for nearly ten years. However our son still lives in Craigmont, so they throw letters for me in his mailbox and eventually they arrive.
There were lots of William Guthries. I had not run across any in Hanover County VA, except what is stated in Henry Guthrie's deposition of Rev. War Service. Your Guthrie children have all the wrong names to belong to our branch. There is a Laurence Guthrie mentioned in one of the books about the Guthrie family, as being from Cumberland County, VA.
I hope this research does you a service, and would be glad to hear of anything that matches.
Good Hunting
Margaret Nell Longeteig
WILLIAM GUTHRIE
Records found in DAR applications give William Guthrie's family as follows:
William Guthrie married in Hanover County, VA Eleanor Abbott.
GUTHRIE CHILDREN: [probably all born in Hanover County VA]
1. John Guthrie (Henry may have been the eldest]
2. Reuben Guthrie
3. Henry Guthrie born 10 Dec. 1754 in Hanover Co. VA
4. Samuel Guthrie [no further mention has been found of him]
5. Peter Guthrie
6. Jesse Guthrie
7. Susannah Guthrie born 27 Sept. 1767 married Benjamin Batterton.
S. Mary Guthrie who married George Marshall
9. Anna Guthrie who married Henry Batterton
10. Elizabeth Guthrie who married Jesse Thomas
11. Nancy Guthrie [no further mention has been found of her]
From a study of Henry and John Guthrie's pension depositions it seems more probable that Henry was the eldest child as given in other printed sources. Since we know his birthdate and Susannah's birthdate for sure we find that all the Guthrie sons would fit in the usual two year spacing, including Samuel who likely died young. This would also solve the problem of why Reuben was not found in the Revolutionary War Records, he would have been too young.
1. Henry Guthrie born 10 Dec. 1754 in Hanover Co. VA
2. John Guthrie born sometime in 1757 in Hanover Co. VVA
3. Reuben Guthrie born sometime in 1759 in Hanover Co. VA
4. Samuel Guthrie born sometime in 1761 in Hanover Co. VA
5. Peter Guthrie born sometime in 1763 in Hanover Co. VA
6. Jesse Guthrie born sometime in 1765 in Hanover Co. VA
7. Susannah Guthrie born 27 Sept 1767 in Halifax Co. NC
8. Mary Guthrie born sometime in 1769 in Halifax Co. NC
9. Anna Guthrie born sometime in 1771 in Halifax Co. NC
10. Elizabeth Guthrie born sometime in 1773 in Halifax Co. NC
11. Nancy Guthrie, who may not belong to this family at all.
THINGS WE KNOW AND DON'T KNOW
We know William lived in Hanover Co. VA in 1754 (Henry's deposition)
We know he was married to Eleanor Abbott (family records of his daughter Susannah Guthrie Batterton)
We know he kept a family register [how I'd like to get my hands on it!]
We know he moved to Halifax County, NC in 1766 (Henry's deposition)
We know Henry had an uncle named Levi Guthrie (Henry's deposition)
We know William owned land in Halifax County NC (deeds in Halifax County NQ
We know he witnessed the will of Wm. Bennett on 19 April 1768 (Halifax Co. NC Will Book)
We know he moved to Kentucky in 1789 (Henry's deposition)
We know he owned land in Madison Co. KY (Madison Co Tax Lists)
We know he died about 1798 (Madison Co. KY estate books and census)
We do not know exactly when he was born, although one source (Mormon CFI) says 1735. Another source says he was born in Hanover Co. VA in 1722. This is more probable.
We have no marriage record for William and Elinor but it probably was around 1751 to 1753 if Henry was the eldest.
We may never know the parentage of William Guthrie. Several people have different ideas, but the loss of essential records by fire, war, and other disasters may prevent a final proof.
We discover from records that the Guthrie sons were more artisans and smiths rather than farmers, although all of them owned land. William's brother Levi was also a blacksmith in the army. I wonder where they learned? Was William a metal worker? It looks as if it might have been a family business that may have started possibly with William and Levifs father, whoever he was.
INFORMATION FOUND IN BOOKS
Mr. Joseph A. Guthrie wrote a book Early Virginia Guthries from which I am going to quote extensively for he explains the various combinations of records which might explain William's ancestry much more clearly and succintly than I am able to. I have seen the printed version of the Christ Church Register and Mr. Guthrie transcribes it accurately. To quote directly from his book, pages 10, 11f 12, and 13--"There is still available the register of Christ Church parish, of the County of Middlesex, and from it much is learned of John Guthrie, the patentee. The first entry is "John Guthry of Scotland and Elizabeth Basket, both of this parish, were married 6th of Feb 1686 H. In other entries the Register records that there were born to John and Elizabeth Basket, the following Children:
"Ann, a daughter, born 16th Oct 1687; John, a son born 28th July 1689; Richard, a son, born 3rd April 1691; Masey, a son, born 4th Sept 1692." There is also recorded the baptism on 14th March 1679 of Elizabeth Basket, probably the Elizabeth mentioned above as the wife of John Guthrey.
"In addition to the marriages of John Guthry to Elizabeth Basket there are records in the Middlesex Register of six Guthrie marriages, between the years of 1708 and 1728 and others (of girls) in later years. The six referred to are as follows:
1. John Guthrie married Mary Stiff on January 5th, 1708
(another copy calls her Sarah Stiff)
2. John Guthrie married Jane Mitcham on August 4th, 1716
3. Wm. Guthrie married Lettice Burk on January 14th 1716
4. John Guthrie married Mary Shay on September 23rd, 1722
5. David Guthrie married Susanna Thurston (or Thruston) on October 11th, 1723
6. Wm. Guthrie married Frances Wilbourn on November 19th, 1728
"It is our belief that those above mentioned constitute the earliest Guthrie marriages in Virginia of which there is existing record evidence.
"It is practically certain that the John Guthrie who married Mary Stiff is the same John who some two and a half years later married Jane Mitcham and that he was the son of John Guthrie and Elizabeth Basket, who was born on 28th July 1689. There is no record of a child being born of his marriage to Mary Stiff, but of the marriage to Jane Mitcham it is recorded that three children were born, of whom one was a son John, born August 16th, 1716.
"There is an obvious error of dates and names in the copy of the Register before us, as related to the Shay marriage, the Register records the births of two sons of that marriage to both of whom was given the name "William"; the date of birth of the first-born William being given as February 14 1722, which was prior to the date of the marriage. It is probable that this William was the son of John Guthrie and his wife Jane Mitcham, since the death of Jane is recorded as having occurred on April 22nd 1722, slightly more than two months after the birth of this William. No light is shed by any entry in the Register on the identity of the John Guthrie who married Mary Shay, of which union the Register records in addition to that of the William above mentioned, the following births: Garrett (b) 19 Feb 1723, an erroneous date; Henry, 29 Jan 1726; William and James, twins, b 11 May 1729.
"Who may have been the William Guthrie who married Lettice Burk .... does not appear ... Nor is there any evidence in the Register as to the identity of David Guthrie who married Susanna Thurston, of which union no births are recorded ... nor is there any evidence as to the identity of William Guthrie who, in 1728, married Frances Wilbourn ... An analysis of the dates recorded in the Register, affords no warrant for the belief that any one of them was a lineal descendant of John Guthrie the patentee of 1691 and 1714.. Obviously they were not sons of John the patentee, the names of three of whose sons, out of a possible four, (the fourth son is conjectured to be Edward) are given in the Register; nor could any one of them have been a grand-son and of marriageable age at the dates of their respective marriages.''
LAURENCEE GUTHRIE'S INFORMATION
Laurence R. Guthrie, in his book American Guthrie and Allied Families states "William Guthrie of HaMoVer County, VA appears to have been the William who was a brother of Lawrence and Thomas Guthrie, of Cumberland County, VA since he lived in that county for a period of time after leaving Hanover, and before locating in Halifax County NC. He married in Hanover Co. VA Eleanor Abbott.
OTHER RESEARCHERS INFORMATION
A Mrs. Palmerston did research for Roy Wilmot Hull of Cardston, Alberta, Canada who is descended from George and Mary Guthrie Marshall. Mr. Hull's records were found in the Mormon CFI files, and while he is deceased we were fortunate enough to find a family member who sent us copies of his correspondence with both Mrs. Palmerston and Mrs. Kratzer, also Guthrie descendants. These ladies quoted quite a few records that throw no further light upon the matter but seemed to "have a feeling" that perhaps our William and Mrs. P's Thomas Guthrie of King William Co. VA were brothers and sons of Edward (perhaps the son of John and Elizabeth Baskett). This "feeling" doesn't count for much without some kind of proof, which may be unobtainable.
Marian James Lynch of Georgetown, KY, a descendant of Susannah Guthrie Batterton, responded in 1983 to an ad I had placed inquiring about William Guthrie. In her chart she shows" that John the immigrant had a son John who married Elizabeth Baskett. (If John the lst were no older than 18 when he arrived in 1652, he would have been 58 at the time in 1686 when a John Guthry married Elizabeth Basket. The son theory makes ages more reasonable.) She goes on to claim the William born in 1722 as a son of John Guthrie and Mary Shay, and as our William who married Eleanor Abbott. She cites the Middlesex Records as proof, as well as family records.
Correspondence with James 0. Guthrie of Lumberton NC in 1984 shows that he inclines to the belief that the William Guthrie of Cumberland Co. VA that bought land in Halifax Co. NC in 1770 is the son of Sarah Guttrey of Cumberland Co VA whose will was probated 25 Dec. 1771 naming sons Bernard and William Coleman Guttery and daughters Patty, Philadelphia Eliot, Oriana Coleman and Susanna Guttrey. Several sources have our William living for a time in Cumberland County between Hanover County and North Carolina. Maps show this would be a logical way to travel, especially if he had family living in Cumberland County that he wanted to see. If Bernard were the eldest, and putting William's birthdate as around 1722 the Sarah of the will could have been
around 69 in 1771, no problem. However there is the problem of WHERE IS LEVI? Also Henry did not mention a stopover in Cumberland County when he did mention both places and dates for the family's other moves. Although such a stop would have had no special reference to events of the Revolution, which is what his deposition was about.
There is a deed in Halifax Co. NC that shows that Sherwood Grimsley sold to William Guthrey of Cumberland Co. VA for 100 pounds, 300 acres on Rocky Branch "where the said Wiiliam Guthrey now lives". This corresponds to the description of the land that William Guthrie sold on Nov. 15, 1789 to John Andrew Sancrett for 140 pounds. However it had grown to 400 acres by then. Henry says in his deposition that his father's land was about 7 miles from the town of Halifax, a contemporary map shows Rocky Branch to be about this distance from Halifax NC.
IS A 'FEELING' A FACT?
My personal "feeling" is to incline to the belief that William might have been the son of David and Susannah Thurston Guthrie, basing it on nothing more than the fact that Henry named a daughter Eleanor Thurston Guthrie. Now if there had only been some boys named David! Well, "you pays your money and takes your choice."
We are quite sure that the William of Halifax County NC is "our" William for Jessie, Peter, John, Reuben and Henry all show up in the immediate neighborhood through the medium of various court records which will be noted under their individual names. There is a "leftover" William Guthrie in the NC 1790 census, (our Guthries were supposed to have left in 1789) in Warren County-just west of Halifax County. The William Guthrie there is listed in the Halifax District. Since on the 1790 census there is no way to tell the age of the head of the household but since he is listed with younger children he might even be a son of Levi who was named for his uncle.
In Colonial Records of North Carolina Vol.7, page 866, dated in 1768, there is a petition to his Excellency William Tryon Esq., Governor of North Carolina, etc., noting that the "grait Scarcity of Money" put them under hardship as they were not able to pay their taxes, "which has been the Real Cause of the Disturbance that leatly Hapned". The petition asked that the Assembly either act to make (?print-coin?) more money or pass an Act that the people could pay their taxes in commodities "Which would Enable Us to Chearfully pay as Useual". There were 67 signatures including that of Wm. Guthrie.
I have not been able to find much evidence of Revolutionary service for William Guthrie. Henry states in his deposition that "we were ripe for revolution" and presumably William's attitude encouraged his sons. North Carolina only drafted men up to age 50, and William was probably 53, although they probably accepted volunteers over that age. In North Carolina State Records, Volume 7, pages 213 and 214, under Abstract of Army Accounts it shows various amounts being paid to William Guttery, John Guttery, Henry Guthrie and James Guttery, names familiar to us except for James. The Guthrie name was spelled and misspelled in many ways. Perhaps William's best service was to nurse back to health two badly wounded soldiers, and support at least one of them for several years until he could work again. The fact that the soldiers were also his sons should not count against that service. However I have recently seen where some women have joined DAR on the service of William Guthry whose wife was Eleanor Abbott. I have not sent for those records as yet.
There is a census of Halifax County NC dated 1784-1786 which gives in District No.4, William Guthrie, with one male between 21 and 60, 2 males under 21 or over 60, 4 white females and 1 black aged 12 to 50. It is difficult to guess just who was in the household at that time. If William was over 60 and Jessie under 21 then it could have been William and Elinor, Henry, Jessie, and three of the girls when there should have been four. John, Reuben and Peter might have had their own households, or could have been H working OUtH and members of other households. As none of them were mentioned in the census this was probably the case.
Henry, in his deposition states that his father moved to Kentucky in 1789. The deed given in Halifax county shows that William sold his land there in November of 1789. [1 wonder if they moved in the winter? Many did, the frozen roads were easier on wagons and cattle and walking kept the people warm. Also the Indians tended to stay home by the fire.] Some sources say they moved to Bourbon County, but the 1791 tax records of Madison County show the first appearance for William Guthrie. He is listed with two white males over 21, two blacks over 21 and 3 horses. The next year--1792--the questions were different, he is shown with 1 white male over 21, two blacks over 21 and two blacks under 21, 3 horses and 10 cattle. This is the year that Levi Guttrey appears in Madison Co.. 1794 shows that William Guthrie was exempted, whatever that may mean--it might have been his age and it might prove his Revolutionary War service. That year he had 4 blacks over 21, 2 under 21, and 14 cattle.
In 1795 he was again marked exempt and as having land on Callaway Creek. This is the year that Roger Shackelford appears on the tax list. In 1796 the tax records mentioned no exemption, but located William's land more definitely. He had 100 acres of 2nd rate land on Callaway Creek that was originally surveyed for John Lutril. The 1797 list repeats this information. There is no list given for 1798; in 1799 the land is assessed to Elinor Guthrie and she had 3 blacks.
The 1800 census of Kentucky (which was reconstructed from tax lists) shows Elinor and her sons Jessie and Peter in Madison County. The clerk of Madison County kindly sent me two depositions, the first, dated 13 Oct. 1803 says "Know all men by these presents that we the heirs of William Guthrie Dec1d have joined, ordained and made and in our stead and place have put and constituted our friend and Mother, Elenor Guthrie, to be our lawfull attorney for us and in our names and for our use to manage, bargain, sell or dispose of any part or parts of the estate of our Father, William Guthrie etc." It was signed by John, Henry, Reuben, Jessie and Elizabeth Guthrie, by Benjamin and Henry Batterton and by George Marshall. The witnesses were John Moore, Andrew Guthrie (who was he? Buncombe Co. NC records show he was may have been son of John] and Peter Evans. The second deposition was dated 10th day of March 1814 and states that Henry Guthrie, an heir of William Guthrie sold his interest in the estate to the other heirs for fifty dollars. These records show that our William Guthrie died about 1798 in Madison County, Kentucky. If he was born about 1722 he would have been about 76 years old in that year. Peter was also deceased in 1803 as will be shown later.
One other matter I think needs clearing up is about one of the "other" William Guthries. Olive Batterton Roach, for her DAR application found the records of a William Guthrie in Kentucky who had applied for a Revolutionary War Pension and claimed him as our William. This William had enlisted in York County, Pennsylvania. Why would our William have left his family in North Carolina and crossed Virginia to enlist there? This William stated in his pension application- No. S 35997-- that he had one son who had gone away some time before and his father didn't know where he was, and that he had one daughter who had 7 children and "her husband was a poor man". Our William had several sons living with and near him, and several daughters in the area, two of whom were married to Battertons who apparently were not poor men. Finally this William Guthrie of the pension application died in 1832. Our William would have been about 110 years old, a circumstance that surely would have been mentioned in the application. This DAR application is in error.
SOURCES:
DAR application of Olive Batterton Roach
Family records available to DAR applicants.
American Guthrie and Allied Families by Laurence R. Guthrie,
Boyds, MD Pub
by Kerr Printing Co. Chambersburg PA, copyright 1933 Seattle
Library
Early Virginia Guthries, by Joseph A. Guthrie (of Kansas City)
L.A. Library
Register of Christ Church Parish, Middlesex Co. VA
research of Mrs. William Palmerston
research of Mrs. Anna Kratzer
research of Marian James Lynch
research of James 0. Guthrie
Deed Books of Halifax County NC
Colonial Records of North Carolina Vol 7.
State Census of Halifax Gounty NC 1784-1786
State Records of North Carolina Vol 17 page 213
Deposition for Revolutionary Pension by Henry Guthrie, Circuit
Court of Tennessee.
Madison County KY Deed books E and K
Madison County KY Tax Lists 1788 to 1816, in Mormon Library
LEVI GUTHRIE
Henry says in his deposition that he served out a term of enlistment for his uncle Levi Guthrie "so that he could go home to his family." In the State Records of North Carolina Vol 15 there are two different records, written by Col. as Long. In the one on page 477, in a letter to General Sumner, Long complains that he was allowed only a small number of "artificers'' and lists among his 4 blacksmiths Levi Guthrie, a 12 months man. This list was in June, and again in August "Levi Guthree" is listed as a blacksmith. After the war, in the NC 1790 census a Levi Guthrie is listed as a resident of Cartaret County in an area called Shackleford Banks. [Henry married Nancy Shackleford in Kentucky].
The name, Levi Guthrie, is also in Cartaret County Court Records in 1765-1785 and in the Tax lists 1779 and 1784, although it does not say how much land he owns but he paid 1/2 pound tax. The name continues to appear in the 1800 and 1810 census, these indicate that Levi was born prior to 1755, his spouse born between 1755 and 1774.
Children: 1 male born between 1790 and 1800
1 male born between 1784 and 1790
1 male born between 1774 and 1784
2 females born between 1790 and 1800
1 female born between 1784-1790
A William Guthery (Guthrie) appears in Cartaret in the 1810 census as head of a household, he could be either of the second males mentioned above and named for his uncle William. However there were other Guthries in the area and William was a common name so he might not be related.
And to make matters more confusing, the name Levi Guthrie appears in the Madison County KY tax list, first in 1792 and then each year until 1797 when he is listed as having land on otter Creek that was originally surveyed for John South. Was this Levi Guthrie, William's brother? or perhaps William's nephew? Or perhaps no relation? A Robert Guthrie appeared on the tax lists in 1797 and was there on Silver Creek in 1801--where does he fit in?
SOURCES:
Deposition of Revolutionary Pension Application by Henry Guthrie.
State Records of North Carolina Vol 15
Census of North Carolina 1790, 1800, 1810
Cartaret County Tax Lists
Carteret County Court Records
Madison Co. KY Tax Lists 1788 to 1816
ELEANOR GUTHRIE
Thanks to the record keeping in the Batterton Family we know the maiden name of William Guthrie's wife. She was born Elinor Abbot. She died 16 March 1816 in Bourbon County, KY, and was buried in the Batterton Cemetery. Two of her daughters had married Batterton brothers. Her name last appeared on the tax lists of Madison County in 1814 with "Reuben Guthries heirs". I wonder if she and the heirs sold out that year (they do not appear again) and she went to live with Susannah? She was a widow for over 16 years. The tax lists show that she had two male slaves over 21 during the years after William died so labor on the farm was taken care of.
On a roughly chiseled field stone it says she was age 82, therefore she was probably born some time in 1734. If Reuben and John were both older than Henry she would have had her first child at age 16, another reason for placing Henry as the eldest. We wonder if she came from Hanover County, VA where Henry was born. In the very few records left there we found no Abbotts or no Guthries as land owners. However the names we have were all from the records of the St. Paul's Parish Church, the Guthries may have been Presbyterian, although the ones in Middlesex County were Anglican.
In the 1800 Kentucky tax List, among the 14 Guthrie (and variations) names given we find Peter and Reuben in Madison Co., also an "Aleniar". In the 1810 census of Madison County her name is spelled "Elinor". She managed William's property for several years, in 1803 the family had put her in charge of it legally. William had left an estate of 100 acres. In 1814 Henry sold his share of the estate to the other heirs. This may have been a prelude to Eleanor's disposing of the property.
SOURCES:
Maxwell History and Allied Families 1916
Kentucky Census 1800, 1810
Madison County Kentucky Deed Books E (page 57) and K (pages 955 to 957)
Madison County KY Tax Lists 1788 to 1816
JOHN GUTHRIE
In Henry's deposition he told that his brother, John Guthrie, was sent out as a spy when the British invaded Halifax Town, that he was surprised by the British, shot through, and left for dead. In the National Genealogical Society Quarterly, Vol 46, March 1958, were published some "recently discovered'' records relating to Revolutionary War Veterans who applied for pensions under the act of 1792. One record was: "GUTHRIE, John: Private, N. Carolina, 12 Mols Men. Wounded from a Ball entering opposite the Spine, which renders him incapable of laborious Manual Exercise, May 1781 near Halifax, North Carolina. Residence: Augusta, Georgia 1796. Never appeared on the muster Rolls. Evidence incomplete. The degree of disability not ascertained. No evidence of his residence for the first two years, nor of the continuance of the disability after H This certainly sounds like our John. In a new book listing Revolutionary Pensions there is a John Guthrie NC S10776. These papers were sent for.
John Guthrie evidently had a grant or bought a tract of land in Halifax County before 1783. There were two references to him in the Deed Book Index. One of the references was not found. The other showed that he bought land from William Bagby "adjoining his first tract". This deed was made the 9th day of January 1783. John would have been 27. Reuben also bought land in Halifax, but there is no record of Henry having done so.
John Guthrie's name was on the Power of Attorney that left Elinor in charge of William's estate. John's name was also on the papers of Peter Guthrie's estate as one of the heirs. He also appears about 1810 as being associated with Jesse Guthrie and Jesse's business associate Edward West in Lexington.
After sending three times to the National Archives the pension papers for John Guthrie No. S10776 were finally obtained.
Portion of letter from I.L. Edwards to Senator Walker of N. Carolina
War Department
Office of Pensions
Jan 10th 1820
Sir:
In reply to your note of this morning, I have to inform you that it will be necessary for John Guthrie, whose name is on the roll of invalid pensioners for the Georgia Agency to go before a Magistrate of the Town or County in which he resides and make an affidavit that it is his intention to remain permanently in North Carolina and request to be transfered to the roll of that State. He will also have to state his rank, the Company, Regiment etc. in which he served, what amount of pension he has received per month and the time at which his name was first placed on the list of U. S. Pensions. The offical character and signature of the Magistrate must be certified to by the Clerk of the County, whose Seal of Office must be attatched to his certificate. a paragraph about a pension for another person]
I am respectfully
Your obedient Servant
I. L. Edwards
Affidavit of John Guthrie, apparently written by himself to I. L. Edwards.
Respective and Dear Sir Mr I. L. Edwards
In anser to your directions sent me by the friendly hand of the honored Felix Walker, Member of Congress, I, John Guthrie, do hereby comply with your injunctions as Nearely as my memmory and abillity Can Do. as to my living permanently in North Carolina I have no thought Ever to Remove from the place I now live on in Buncombe Couny N. Carolina and as to being transferde from Georgia to North Carolina I do not no any advantage I could have by it. Tis as far for me to go or send to Fayeteville in N. Carolina as to go to Savanah in Georgia, [measured as a bee-line on a modern highway map it would be about 210 miles to Fayetteville and about 270 to Savannah, but it might be an easier trip to Savannah] tharefore I submit that parte to your own Judgment to transfare me or Not. My only petition is to have a Certificate author ' izing me to Draw my pencion whare you may plise to Direct and the agents there Notified that no disappintment may happen to my Cost and loss. The Rank I listed in was a private or Common Soldier. Agreeable to a act of the assembly of No. Carolina pased'September 1780 that Every tenth man thoughout the State That was not otherways exempted by law should list or be drafted and to serve as Regular Soldier for Twelve month and as I had worked for three years before that in a-Standing armory Near Halafax town in N. Carolina,I was persuaded by Nicolous Long, Quatermaster General for the State of N. Carolina and General Sumner who was to have the command of all these men where ????? to turnout as,one tenth man and serve my twelve month in this above State U.S. Armory. which accordingly I inlisted and was Directed and Cent by Genraloslu'mner to work in this factury and was not placed in any other Company or Regiment where I served no Armer in the United Stites armourry until I was wounded which happened on the seventh day of May 1781. at that time the brittish was marching rapidly though N. Carolina aming to git to Petersburge in Virginia. I was that Day sent out by Colonel William Linton to Spy out there movements and unfortunately fell in the hand of Taltons Coure of horse and shot through.
The amount of pencion I have Receved has bin only two Dollars per month and as to the exact time I was placed on the United pention list I cannot say. This I no that I first applide on the tenth Day of January 1795 and on that Day was Escamoned both myself and wounds by Dockter Murry and Docter Dirand? the two men appinted by Judge Penoleton? and two Days after I brought in my witnesses to Discharge and it was noted those as a pentioner but what time was in Roled in the pension office I no not but this I Remember, The Comishonors sade I aught to Draw half pay as long as I live. But when they made out the papers for myself & Capt. James Lewis & others they neglected to set what pension we should Draw per month or yeare and cent on the paper to the War Office and the papers was Cent back Directing the Commishoners to set what pention we should Draw and the (as they sade) Supposed whole pension ment whole pay & half pension half pay and Set me to have half pension only. This also I no that on the first of October 1795 1 applide and got my Certificate from the Commishoners--and the firs cent of pension I Ever Drew was from Mr. Richard Willy in the March 1801 and then Drawed from the fourth of September 1798 and the Second and last time I Drawed from Mr. James Alyear on the fourth of September 1802 which in all makes only four yearse & then Mr. Alyear kept back three monts pay. I drew only Nignty Dollars in all first and last. My pension was so small that it was not worth applyin for once in two or three years. My pention is Now Due me from the fourth Day of Septmeber 1802. That's Eighteen years the 4th of September last and three months was kept Back.
John Guthrie
"And furder this deponent saith not. Sworn to ????? and ??????
before me this 16 day of October 1820. Z. L. Baird. J. P.11
State of N. Carolina
Buncombe County
I John Miller, clerk of this county court of pleas and ???? ?????? for this writing aforesaid I hereby certify that Zebulon Baird Esqr wkn attested the foregoing affidavit is now and has been for years past a lawful acting Justice of the Peace for said county, duly authorised and commisioned and that as such due faith and credit is due to all his offical,apts as such.
In testimony whereof I have set my hand and affixed the public seal of my office and (blurred) County aforesaid this 17th day of October 1820
John Miller, Clerk
Another note on a separate, page in the same handwriting as the body of the affidavit (Baiyd!s writing is different) states:
MS if any should ask why I havle neglected so long before I applide for the Ballance of what pension is Due to me I honestly answer them. Whilst I lived in Georgia only 150 miles from Savanah I applide for my pension by powere of attorney & drew nothin And the third time I went my self and drue some money and being sickly in Georgia I ment to move up to the Mountains in N. Carolina whare I now live and went first to Sevanah thinking to Draw what pention was then Due But found the agent not there. He had gone a jorney. I wated 4 dase & went home. Then I went agane & Drue for the last time being the 4th of September 1802 which made five ?? I cent & went only to Draw Ninety Dollare which when I counted up my Expenses and loss of time I Didn't Draw anough to pay Expenses & Now I am 201 miles further of(f) provided no acident should happen Nor Disppintment I could not Draw anuf in those years to pay Expenses So I have let it Run on until Now and being Now olde, Gray & sickly if I Can Draw what is my Due with Small Expenses it would be of Servis in old age. Ther person of property would hardly trouble themselve for the trifle that coming, if it Ever Dose Come. it Cannot Come two Soone for my Necessity.
From John Guthrie to any enquiring friend.
A note on the cover--"Agent directed to pay J. Guthrie from the time which he was last paid, viz. 6 Mar 1806--see letter to him dated 18 September 1821. Inscribed at 2.50$ increment to 4$ under act of April 1816.
If John was born about 1756 he would have been 65 when he finally got his pension. John and Henry (see Henry's affidavit) must have worked together in the armory, but neither mentions the other. John may have been there when Henry was out surveying "the line".
There is a record in a North Carolina Book of payments to John Guthrie of $649.22 from Sept 4 1794 to Sept 4 1821 under act of June 7 1785 and of payment of $257.42 from April 24 1816 under the act of April 24 1816. Resided in Buncombe Co. NC.
SOURCES: National Genealogical Society Quarterly Halifax County NC Deed Book Madison County KY Deed Book Madison County KY Tax Lists 1788 to 1816 Madison County'KY Book of Estates Bureau of Pension Records s.10.776
TIME LINE FOR JOHN GUTHRIE
(g) Guthrie family records
(m) Madison Co Ky ryords
(b) Buncombe Co NC records
(h) Halifax Co NC records Y
(see Mrs. Haile report for details- on land transactions)
1750 or 1752 or 1756--Born, Hanover Co VA to William and Eleanor Guthrie (g) (more and more it looks as if Henry were the eldest, if John were second then he and Henry were the only two old enough to really participate in the war, since Henry was born in 1754 and Susannah in 1767--the only two birthdates positively known, a two year spacing would fit in the other children nicely, even Samuel who probably died young)
1766--moved to Halifax Co NC with family (g) age 16, or 10? (g)
1777--1780 worked in armoury in Halifax NC (g)
1777-1780--????sometime in this period married Anne??? John age 21 in 1777 with later birth date no m. record for any Guthrie found in Halifax County, which proves nothing, maybe in adjoining county or in VA?? probably not recorded.
1780--enlisted in regular army, but worked in armoury (g)
1781--May 7, was badly wounded by British ball (g) John & Henry depositions
1782--??son Andrew born?? to make Andrew 21 in 1803
1783--bought land in Halifax Co VA age 33 or 27 (h) search for later sale of this land
1795--applied for army pension, was resident of Georgia and it was implied that he had been there for about 10 years . H residence for first two years not provenH (g)
1801--drew pension money in Georgia (g)
1801--John Guthrie bought 100 acres in Buncombe County, from Wasson (b)
1802--drew pension money in Georgia (g)
1802--sold 200 acres in Buncombe Co (to Wasson) (b)
1802--implied in the pension letter that he was intending to move to NC.
1803--signed papers in Madison Co KY for Williams estate (m)
1803--Andrew Guthrie signed William's estate papers as witness, would need to be born about 1782 to be of age (m)
1804--bought 125 acres in B. Co (b)
1805--John signed papers in Madipon Co Ky for Peter's estate (m) It is between 200 and 250 miles-between Asheville and Madison county, he could have made two trips. Much different than coming from Georgia.
1805--bought 95 acres on Flat Creek Buncombe Co NC (b)
1806--bought 220 acres on Flat Creek (b)
1807--bought 360 acres on Ivy (b) Buncombe Co NC
1809--bought 200 acres on Flat Creek (b)
1810--census John Guttery 2 males age 16 to 26, 1 male over 45, 1 female age 16-26, 1 female over 45 (John would have been at least 54)
1811--bought 175 acres on Flat Creek (b)
1817--bought 300 acres on Jack's Creek(b)
1817--Enters 300 ackers on Toe Rivers & Jack's Creek, (same as above? in diff. set of records)
1818--Andrew Guthrie bought 100 acres on Flat Creek from John (b)
1818--locates 50 acres on branch of Green River(b)
1818--locates 50 acres on branch of Green River (b) these two parcels are not at all near other land (could these be for a son, John?)
1820--census 1 male 26-45, one male over 45, 1 female under 10, 1 female 16 to 26, 1 female over 45. (a two generation household)
1820--letters about pension (g)
1822--John Guthrie's executors came into court and filed for probate a paper purporting to be the last will and testament of John Guthrie decId. Would it be any use to see if this paper still exists?
1822--Jonathon Guthrie one of heirs of John Guthrie
1832--Shadrick'Guthrie an executor of John Guthrie. Abner Guthrie an executor who lives in Georgia REUBEN GUTHRIE
Reuben was probably the third child. He probably was born about 1759 and probably in Hanover Co., VA. Evidence of service in the Revolution has not yet been found, but living in invaded territory he probably did something. He would have been about 15 when the war began.
In 1783 Reuben (age 24) received a grant of land from the State of North Carolina. The consideration was 50 shillings for every 100 acres. The grant was for 172 acres and one line ran concurrently with Wm. Guthries line. The deed was made on the 9th of October 'in the eighth year of our independence'. One requirement was that Reuben register the deed within 12 months of the time it was made.
In 1784 Reuben received a Power of Attorney from John Moore to look after Moore's lands "at Kentucky in Virginia". In 1787 Reuben received a Power of Attorney from James Heath to look after lands id'Kentucky, and the index notes another "P.A." from Charles Eades, but this reference was not found. The Power of Attorney from James Heath is also registered in Bourbon Co. KY, in 1787, Deed Book B-108.
Reuben may have been the "family scout" and possibly made one or more trips to Kentucky before the family moved there in 1789. It is likely 1hat one trip was in 1787 when he registered the P.A. in Bourbon Co..
The Mormon IGI gives a marriage for Reuben Guthrie to SUSANNAH HOLLAND on 30 Aug 1805 In Rutherford county, KY. The batch and serial numbers have not been checked.
In the Fayette Co., KY deeds there is one registered from the State of Georgia, Green Co., Aug. 27, 1796--Thos. Daniel of said Co., for love and affection to friend, Reubin Guttery (Guthry?), land on Ky. River in Fayette Co., as will appear by grant to Thos. Daniel by Henry Lee, Esq., Gov. of Virginia.
In Fayette Co, KY Records, Vol 2 page 33 there is an Indenture--Aug 7 1797 from Lott Wood of Union Co, SC, to Reuben Guthrie of Fayette Co. Whereas the said Lott Wood obtained from the Court of Commissioners for the District of Kentucky a certificate for a settlement of 400 acres on the east fork of Paint Lick Creek (now in Madison Co.) and preemption for 1,000 acres adjoining. and whereas William McBride or his representatives, by a fraudulent assignment, has claimed a patent for the same, now this Indenture witnesses that Lott Wood, in consideration of 75 pounds, has assigned and sold and transferred to Reuben Guthrie all his right, title and claim which he has or heretofor had in the aforesaid 400 acres and 1,000 acres. Thomas Bodley, witness. Recorded August 7, 1797. [With Reuben on the ground he had a better chance than Wood for gaining possession of the land.]
In the Book The Kentucky Gazette 1787-1800 by Karen Mauer Green on page 216 Vol XI No 618, 25 July 1798 in lists of lands in Clark County to be sold for back taxes the name of Reuben Guthrie appears. (Clark County was formed in 1792 from parts of Bourbon and Fayette Counties.]
In the Batterton Family History it is noted, Bourbon Co. KY Deed Book M-172, that in 1816 Jesse Guthrie gave a Power of Attorney to his brother-in-law Benjamin Batterton of Bourbon County to act for the heirs of his brother, Reuben Guthrie. Jessie had been named executor but he lived in Harrison County at that time, so it wasn't particularly convenient for him to serve. No estate settlement for Reuben Guthrie has been found.
The recently consulted tax lists of Madison County KY reveal Reuben as a "wheeling-dealing" real estate speculator. He is on the 1794 list but the 1796 list is the first one that identifies the land. He had 200 acres of 2nd rate land on the Kentucky River that wag'surveyed for Thomas Daniel. This may have been where he lived for he hung onto that piece while acquiring and selling others.
The 1797 list is the longest, he was taxed for 1400 @ on Paint Lick, Madison Co; 800 @ on the Kentucky River, Fayette Co. 300 @ on S???? Creek in Greene Co.; 3000 @ on Licking Creek in Mason Co.; 100 @ on ' Mud Lick in Montgomery Co.; and another lot of 500 @ on Licking Creek in Mason Co.. In 1800 he had 200 @ on the Kentucky River in Fayette CW:jt1400 @ on Paint Lick in Madison Co.; 500 @ on Stoner Creyk in Clark Co,; 3000 @ in Licking Creek in Fleming Co.; ana 1000 @ on Licking Creek in Montgomery Co.. In 1801 he was down to three pieces, the ones in Madison, Clarke and Fayette Counties.
He and Elinor were both on the 1809 tax list. There was no list for 1810. 1811 had no Guthrie names on the part that survives. The 1812 list shows "Ellender", also "Guthrie, Reubens HeirSH with 900 @ on Silver Creek in Madison Co. and 200 @ on the Kentucky River in Fayette Co.. Reuben's Heirs last listing was in 1814. 1 don't know why they listed his land from other counties, but it certainly was handy for me some 185 years later.
SOURCES:
DAR applications
Halifax County North Carolina Deed Books
Bourbon County Kentucky Deed Books
Madison County Kentucky Deed Books
Madison County Kentucky Tax Lists 1788-1816
JESSE GUTHRIE
On 12 July 1787 Jesse Guthrie witnessed the will of Thomas Edmundson in Halifax County NC. He signed by mark. However when he witnessed a Power of Attorney between John Moore and Reuben Guthrie in 1784 it is not noted that he signed by mark. This may have been a common practice, one way and then the other. In the Kentucky 1800 Tax List Jesse Guthrie is listed as being in Lexington, Fayette County. In both the 1810 and 1820 Census he is a resident of Harrison County, as he was in 1816 when he gave Benjamin Batterton a Power of Attorney for the administration of the estate of his brother, Reuben. In the 1810 census index he is shown as having 6 children and one woman in his household. None of his descendants have been located. In 1822 he was involved in a deed for a piece of property in Harrison Co. and his wife's name was given as Priscilla.
Karen Mauer Green made a series of extracts from the newspaper, THE KENTUCKY GAZETTE 1787-1800. On page 98--Vol VII, No. XXXIX 14 June 1794; "Jesse Guthrie, 5 June 1794, a letter to the editor reguarding Beverly Allen, murderer of Robert Forsyth. He was excommunicated from the Methodist church several years ago". [This may mean that some or all of the Guthries in Kentucky were Methodists]. There were two other notes about Jesse. Page 128 Vol VII, No. XLIV 18 July 1795--"Mary White, administratix of the estate of Charles White, dec1d, regarding the sale of the property and coppersmith's tools belonging to the deceased. Sale to be held at the house of Jesse Guthrie next door to Doctor Downiong's. Notice to debtors: please pay your bills". And on page 158--Vol IT'Xo XLV., 23 July 1796--"Jesse Guthrie and Benjamin Batterton, lexington, 22 July 1796, want to buy old copper, brass and pewter).
The Fayette County Land and Property Lists show that Amor Batterton (probably the father of Benjemin who married Susannah Guthrie] had a lot in Lexington, KY about 1785. No other Batterton or Guthrie names show as property owners on this list, which is not all inclusive.
Other Fayette County Ky Records--Cook Publications Vol 2-show that Jesse Guthrie was associated with Edward West in business in Lexington.
An article on Kentucky imprints shows a Jesse Guthrie as having written a book on Common School Arithmetic in 1810. Whether this may be our Jesse has not been ascertained.
SOURCES: Halifax County NC Deed Books Madison County KY Deed Books Kentucky Census 1800, 1810 and 1820 Bourbon County KY Deed Books The Kentucky Gazette 1787-1800--Extracts by Karen Mauer Green. Fayette Co KY Records--Cook Publications--Vol 2
PETER GUTHRIE
Peter was born about 1763, before the family moved from Hanover Co., VA. He would have been aged 13 at the beginning of the Revolution. Before the Guthrie Family left Halifax County NC Peter signed as a witness to the will of Isaac Jackson on the 29th of March 1784. Henry Guthrie was the other witness. Peter would have to have been of legal age, and the projected year of his birth would have made him 21 that year.
Fayette County KY Records, Vol 2 show on p. 501 an Indenture, July 2, 1799, between Robert Todd and Anne Todd, his wife, of Fayette County, to PETER GUTHRIE of the same county, for 35 pounds, lot No.36 in Lexington, fronting Main Street, being the same granted by the town Trustees to David Todd, and devised by David Todd to Robert Todd and Levi Todd, and allotted and convey to Robert Todd by deed April 19, 1791. Recorded by the Fayette County Court, July 2, 1791, and by the Fayette Circuit Court, October 11, 1805.
p 502, Indenture, October 11, 1805, JOHN GUTHRIE, REUBIN GUTHRIE, HENRY GUTHRIE, JESSE GUTHRIE, GEORGE MARSHALL, BENJAMIN BATTERTON, ELIZABETH GUTHRIE, HENRY BATTERTON, SUSANNA BATTERTON, MARY MARSHALL AND ELEANOR GUTHRIE, heirs of PETER GUTHRIE, dec'd, of Madison County, to James Hawthorn of Fayette County, for $1,000 (the same lot as described in preceeding Indenture). Signed by Reubin Guthrie, attorney in fact for the grantors. Recorded October 11, 1805. [There was money made on that investment! Lexington must have boomed in 6 years.]
It will be noted that Peter Guthrie must have been deceased before 1803 for his name is not-among the heirs on the settlement of William's estate. It is also noted he wasn't married for his siblings and mother are his only heirs.
SUSANNAH GUTHRIE
According to Maxwell History and Allied Families 1916 Susannah Guthrie was born 27 Sep 1767 and died 11 May 1852. She marrieed 11 March 1790 Benjamin Batterton (probably the son of Amor Sr. and brother of Henry), born 2 Sept 1767 and died 29 June 1833 in Kentucky.
The had twelve children:
1. Reuben b 11 Mar 1791, m Nancy Rubel, lived Louisville, KY
2. Anna b 9 Apr 1782 m Lawson D. Simms, moved to IN
3. Sarah Harris b 6 Dec 1703 m Joshua E. King, moved to IN
4. Elizabeth b 16 Dec 1795 m John Dinwiddie
5. John b 23 Dec 1797 m Nancy Grant, d in MO
6. Enoch b 9 Dec 1799 m Mary Snell
7. William Guthrie b 15 Aug 1801 m Matilda Ward Moore
8. Henry b 22 May 1803 m Anne Sparks, moved to IL
9. Jesse b 1805 d 1809
10. Samuel b 20 Dec 1806 m Susan Rebecca Allen
11. Elias b 6 Nov 1808 m Kitty Smith
12. Benjamin Abbott b 12 Jul 1810 d 1865 in KY
SOURCES:
Maxwell History and Allied Families
Deed Books of Madison County KY
MARY GUTHRIE
According to information given by a descendant, Roy W. Hull who was living in Canada about 1960, Mary married George Marshall in 1796 and she died in 1805. In 1797 they bought 100 acres from her brother Henry. Other than the fact she had descendants, that is all we know.
SOURCES:
Mormon IGI
Madison Co. KY Deed Books
ANNA GUTHRIE
Anna was born about 1771 (Mormon CFI) and married Henry Batterton who was born about 1770 and died in February 1832 in Bloomington, IN. He removed from Kentucky to Indiana in an early day and was one of the pioneer merchants of Bloomington. Henry and Benjamin Batterton were brothers and Susannah and Anna were sisters. Henry and Anna had 12 children, but we know nothing further about them.
ELIZABETH GUTHRIE
Elizabeth was single in 1803 at the time of the settling of William's estate. In Kentucky Marriages it is stated that she married Jesse Thomas -on- 14 Aug 1806.
NANCY GUTHRIE
Nancy is sometimes listed as a member of this family. However she did not sign in the 1803 settling of William's estate. I am inclined to think that if there ever was a Nancy in that family that she died young, as we surmise that Samuel did. However there are two marriages in Madison County for a Nancy Guthrie.
HENRY GUTHRIE
Henry Guthrie stated that "according to my father's register I was born in Hanover County VA on 10 December 1754." The early records of Hanover Co. are almost non-existent. In a biography of Martha Washington it was mentioned that Patrick Henry, of 'give me liberty of death' came from Hanover County and spoke "with a nasal up-country twang". Perhaps Henry spoke this way, although his sojourn in North Carolina may have softened his accent.
Much of Henry's life story is given in his deposition. Apparently he was more of a mechanic than a farmer, first repairing guns, then making flax wheels and cotton cards. He also 'went on the line, as a surveyor. While in Halifax Co. he was witness to a deed when his brother John bought land in 1783. When he came to Kentucky he was a tinner and copper smith. In The Kentucky Gazette--1787 to 1800 page 143; 23 Jan 1796 "Henry Guthrie, on High Street in Lexington, wants an apprentice to the coppersmith trade." He may have carried on this trade when he went to Tennessee, records have not been found.
While Henry was with Col. Richard Henderson's survey party they met, on 31 March 1780 John Donelson and his party in the area called the Cumberland Settlement. A booklet named Three Pioneer Tennessee Documents gives the text of Donelson's Journal where he mentions this m ing. One of the other documents concerns the "Cumberland Compact" which provided for local government in that wilderness area. It gives a list of the signers of the Compact which included Richard Henderson, Jo. Donelson, and HENRY GUTHRIE, also 214 others, which must have been nearly the total population of the area.
One thing Henry does not mention in his deposition is mentioned in nearly every history of Nashville, and that was the drilling of the sulphur well. The pioneers found in Kentucky and Tennessee many natural salt springs or 'licks' where the wild animals went to get salt. In an article in the Tennessee Historical Magazine 1 March 1916, it told of one-such spring located on what is now the north side of Cherry street. ''Originally there were many salt swamps or springs in this western country the water of which could be evaporated, leaving a residium of very good salt... It was the law of the state that salt spring tracts could not be granted ... but reserved for the free use of the citizens and their cattle. The next act of North Carolina (before the state was Tennessee) appointed trustees to lease out the salt spring..(which they did) to Anthony Hart in September 1790, he having made bond to pay to the trustees of the town 600 pounds of dry salt for the use of the salt works for four weeks. The paper shows that there were kettles, beams, arches, etc. there... Salt was selling at $20 a barrel at that period.''
"Judge McNairy [who is mentioned in Henry's deposition as being acquainted with Henry) held the theory that the salt came from a solution of a bed of salt lying below the surface of the ground, instead of being, as it in reality was, a mere result of age-long evaporation in undrained low spots. He decided to bore for the salt bed, and to this end employed Frederick Binkley and Henry Guthrie to do the work. They drilled at a place about 100 yards up the branch from the spring, and went down over 160 feet, where they tapped a stream of sulphur water; this is the origin of the sulphur well.''
This drilling was done by means of drills fitted to heavy wooden poles, and casings were let down into the well to keep out other kinds of water. Another history of Nashville says this scheme was carried out in 1790 (the same year that Tennessee was made a state) and that the tools were brought from New Orleans to bore the hole.
In 1796 Henry Guthrie married Nancy Anne Shackelford, and 8 years later Frederick Binkley married her younger (by 10 years) sister, Adeline Shackelford. Thus the two contractors eventually became brothers-in-law. Henry and Nancy moved from Madison County, Kentucky, where they were married, to Nashville, TN and lived there and at Nolinsville, nearby, the rest of their lives. It is not known whether Henry was chiefly a farmer or continued in other lines of work.
Henry was not only a veteran of the Revolution he was also a veteran of the War of 1812. He is so listed in the Veterans of the War of 1812 Buried in Tennessee. Tennessee must a great many men into the army at that time-,- but not all of them saw active service. There is no indication that Henry did.
Henry and Nancy's children and other descendants are given in the genealogical section of this book.
It might be interesting to quote from Henry's release of his father's estate. "To all to whom these presents may come know ye that I, Henry Guthery, of Davidson County and State of Tennessee one of the heirs... of William Gutherie dec1d, for and in consideration of the sum of fifty dollars the receipt of which I do hereby acknowledge to release unto the other heirs of the said William Guthrie deceased all my right .... unto a certain ... parcel of land situate lying in Madison county and State of Kentucky near Boonesborough containing an hundred acres..more or less.. 10th March 1814. Henry Guthry" Note all the ways the name is spelled in the same document. The deletions were those of legal terms redundant for our purpose.
Next is a copy of the Affidavit or Deposition that Henry Guthrie gave in order to get his Revolutionary War pension. The spelling and capitalizations are those of the original but punctuation and paragraphing was added. It was written as one long breathless sentence. This pension was at first denied, but, later, after the rules were changed somewhat, granted. It was something like three dollars a month. Nancy Ann received the pension after Henry's death.
Circuit Court of the United States
for the District of West Tennessee:
September Term, 1832
Present the Honorable John McLean &McKarny--, District Judge
State of Tennessee
Davidson County
On this 10th day of September 1832, personally appeared in open court before the judges of the Federal Circuit Court of the United States now sitting Henry Guthrie, a resident of said county & state, of age seventy seven years and none Qnine?] months, that being sworn doth on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the benefit of the act of Congress passed June 7th 1822:
Agreeable to my father's register, I was born in Hanover County and state of Virginia the 10 day of December in the year of our lord 1754. And in the year 1766 my father moved to North Carolina, Halifax County, and settled within about seven miles of the town and continued there till 1789.
In the years 1774 and 1775 we were greatly alarmed at the disturbance at Boston and expecting war and we being ripe for a revolution prepared for the same by joining into what we called Independent Companies and dressed ourselves in uniform, signed the association and took the state oath as oath of Confederation. At that time Samuel Weldon was Captain of the Company I belonged to at that time, but was soon made Colonel and Nathan Turner made Captain in his place. In the beginning of the year 1776 there was a gang of tories collected together in Randolph County and on their way to Wilmington was defeated, their guns taken from them and a great many of them taken prisoners and them and their guns brought to Hallifax and I was commanded to stand guard over them.
I was not more than 2 or 3 days on that guard before Nicholas Long, the deputy quarter master general, took me from that and set me to reparing the guns that was taken from the Tories, and I think there was two or three hundred guns and chiefly wanting repare. Seeing that it would take me so long to repare them myself I spoke to Long to get some person to help me, but he said he knew of no person he could get. I told him of Turner Mason who lived in my neighbourhood and he sent me after him. He came and worked one week, and finding that the wages was less than he was willing to work for, he quit and left it all for me to do.
I do not know what time of the year 1776 1 began to work on the guns, nor what time in the year 1777 1 quit, but I very well recollect that I was at that work when general Lee, with his army, marched through to meet Clinton the British general at Charlestown, which I think was the last of May or the first of June. And I continued at that work that summer and the ensewing winter. And I shall recollect that winter while I live, there being two weeks the coldest weather in January I ever felt in the state of North Carolina. I continued at the business until I had repared all the guns that was thought worth reparing, then Long dismissed me after serving I think about twelve Months.
Then I went to work with a man by the name of Yardner making little wheals to spin flax on, there being great call for them at that time, but had not the chance to work at that long before I was drafted. But not being in the Company I belonged to and was classed, I was taken one of the first of the Militia that went from North Carolina for six months, and to go to Georgia. The Captain of the Company where I was drafted was as well as I recollect, by the name of John Hargrove. I was put under Captain Seurlock and was ordered to rendavouse at Longs.
As soon as I got there Long came to me and requested me to turn in and work out my tower at the armoury and I refused ! saying that as I have taken a very forward part at the beginning of the revolution in joining the independents and persuading other young men to do the same, that it would not look well for me to stay behind when there was men called for. Then Long and Seurlock both set in to persuading me to stay, saying that as there was a great deal of work that was absolutely necessary to be done for the use of the army, and as Long knew no man he could get to do it unless I would, and that my service in the armoury would be of more value to the cause than several men in the field of battle, as they could not fight without weapons to fight with. So I agreed to stay and I worked out that six months in the armoury--. The men that I was to have gone with was put under general Ash and was defeated at Brier Creek, as I understood, in Georgia.
Then John Burts belonging to the same company that I was drafted in was drafted for six months and offered me one hundred dollars to take his place. And as I saw so little chance of staying home to work for myself I agreed to take it, and to substitute in his place. And I was stopped at the armoury again and served out that six months tower there. Then in the year 1779, but I do not know now what time in that year, the commishoners that was appointed by state to extend the boundary line between Tennessee and Kentucky, employed me as a surveyor to come out and run the line. We came out and run the line and while we were out there Charlestown was taken by the Brittish, and I got home just before Gaites defeat, was one year from home. Soon as I got home William Hurt, belonging to the same company that Burton did and the company that I was drafted in, was drafted for six months. He offered me one hundred dollars to take his place as a substitute and gave me a horse in part pay. Which suited me very well as I was so unlucky to loose mine on the line. So I substituted for him and was stopped at the armoury again and served out that six months. But what officer (Burts or Hurt) was to have gone under I do not now recollect.
I was then drafted again but as those that went out on the line was as much exposed to hardships and danger as those that went out against the Brittish, though none of us were killed or wounded as I recollect, yet we had several horses stollen and saw and buried several men that was killed by the Indians, so we was all allowed credit for the Tower of Duty and it was considered that I had already served out the tower for which I was last drafted, and was exempted.
Then I had an uncle by the name of Levie Guthrie who belonged to the regular service and was working in the armoury who had three or four months to serve. He got me to go in his place and Long received me in his place and let him go home to his family and I served out that three or four months.
Then in a few days after that I went with Long in Hallifax Town and he told me that he had left his home and had sent his family on before and he had to go along after them to take care of them, that the British was hourly expected along and requested me to go to his house and see to taking care of the publick property (guns and ammunition). (He said) that there was four men sent out as spies, William Frohawk, Thomas Hawkins, William Hurt, and John Guthrie my brother on the swiftest horses that could be got and that they would be sure to bring news to me if they were near so that I could make my escape. But the Brittish light horse met them in a short turn of the road, fiered upon them, killed Frohawk, shot my brother through and thought they had killed him, wounded Hawkins, who made his escape through the woods, and wounded Hurt and took him Prisoner. I went and while we were busy in taken care of the Publick property we were surrounded by the Brittish light horse and was taken prisoner and wounded. Which would have put an end to the war with me for a few years had war continued, for I was weakened by the loss of blood (so) that for several years I was of very little account to the publick or myself. After keeping me eight days they gave me a parole.
After the war was ended I continued to live in Hallifax County chiefly making cotton cards till the year 1789 my father moved to Kentucky. I went with him. I then lived chiefly in Lexington working at the tinning and copper smith work till the year 1799. 1 then moved to Nashville Tennessee and have lived in Davidson County, Tennessee ever since.
"and that he has no documentary evidence of his discharge, or of his service, and that he knows of no persons whose testimony he can procure who can testify to his service--and he hereby relinquishes every claim whatever to a pension or annuity except the present, and declares that his name is not on the pension roll of the agency of any State. That he is known to the Hon'ble John McNairy one of the Judges of this court.
Robert C. Forbin, sec.
Even after several years of research I find myself stumbling over Mildred Murphy's footsteps. She mentioned a letter written in 1855 by Henry's son Daniel Guthrie, from Vale Mills, Giles County, Tennessee, but did not say what was in the letter, nor where she found it. After finally seeing all of Henry Guthrie's pension papers, as found in the National Archives ! I found the letter. It is contained in the portion of the pension papers relative to Nancy Guthrie's pension, which occasioned a good bit more correspondence than Henry's did. After all she was 25 years younger than Henry, they were married 41 years, she lived as a widow for 33 years and died at age 91. In her later years the pension was probably her only cash income except for the help given by her children as she "visited" around among them.
This letter gives some amplification of Henry Guthrie's Revolutionary service that may be of interest to the descendants.
Vale Mills, Giles Co. Tenn.
April 24, 1855
Mr. L. P. Waldo Commissioner of Pensions,
Dear Sir;
My mother (Nancy Guthrie the widow of Henry Guthrie Dec'd of Davidson County Tennessee is at my house on a visit) at her request I write asking some information from you if you please in regard to Pensions.
Mr. I. I. Coombs Esq (of your city) through his agent Mr. James Taylor of Sumpterville, S. C., writes to my Brother John Guthrie requesting my mother to forward to him the said James Taylor her certificate of Pension in order that he may be able prosicute the claim of my Father Henry Guthrie Decd., for the benefit of my mother still further, as an artisan in the Revolutionary war.
I cannot see wherein it would be of any advantage or disadvantage to the cause for him to have her cirtificate.
My Mother says that if it is necessary for it to be there when the case up for your special examination that she had rather forward it directly to your care.
They are no doubt but my Father served in the Revolutionary war as an artisan. I have herd him speak of it frequently in his lifetime saying that when he volunteered the firt time that Col. Long, the Quartermaster (I think I am not mistaken in the name of Col. Long, I speak from memory) pressed him into the shop from necessity. That the whigs a very short time before that had taken something like sixty guns from the tories and British. At that time there was no person in the service that Col. Long could get to repair them it being known to Col. Long that my Father could do such work he pressed hard upon my Father to stop in the shop and repair said guns. He did stop and had to commence his work in a common black smith shop and make all the necessary tools to repair the guns with. He worked some time by himself before they were able to get any person to help him and when they got the shop started he remained at the head of the shop as long as he remained in the service. I have herd him speak frequently of serving there two or three six months towers as a regular Volunteer in the war at five Dollars per month when his time at home engaged at his regular business was worth to him three ----[blot) per day. Also at the time when Cornwallis passed through the Town of Halafax N. C, my Father was there on business and at the request of Col. Long my Father was assisting to take care of the Public property. The British having captured the spies that the Americans had sent out they were thereby enabled to come upon those who were taking care of the Public property by supprise and take them prisners. My Father was wounded in the scrumage by a British officer with a sword on the top of the head that very nearly cost him his life. He was in a very low state of health from the effects of the wound for near three years.
I know nothing about the record evidence that Mr Cooms has got in the case. I only speak of these things that I have herd my Father state so that you be the better able to understand the case when it comes up for a final decision before you.
My Mother's certificate that I speak of was allowed Feb 8, 1855 under the act of July 29th 1848 for the sum of $80.00 per annum. No. 1163 recorded in the pension office Page 182 Vol. A.
My Mother also requests that when the subject comes before you again that you will examine and see if she is not entitled to a Land Warrant under the act of March 3rd 1855(?) and if she is will do her the favor to make the allowance and forward the warrant to the care of Joel M. Smith the Pension pay agent at Nashville, Ten. You can see from the evidence taken in her case on the fifth or sixth of March 1855 before she drew her Pension that she has never married again since my Fathers death.
Yours very respectfully
Daniel Guthrie
(Daniel wrote a very clear and
neat hand, the letter is not reproduced because mine is a negative copy, white letters on black]
In John Guthrie's pension papers he mentioned working in this same repair shop, but he did not mention his brother Henry, nor did Henry mention John. It is possible that John worked in the shop when Henry was gone to Tennessee surveying and they were not there together. Most of the Guthrie men seemed to have been artisans rather than, or as well as, farmers from edvidence in the Kentucky records.
Since 1980 the Cook Publications Company has very carefully transcribed several volumes of the Burnt Records of Fayette County, KY. These transcriptions can be found in the DAR Library in Washington, DC. Among these records is one for 1797 showing that Henry Guthrie sold land on the east fork of Mill Creek "containing one hundred an -------- some more or less" to George Marshall (who had married Henry's sister Mary in 1796]. The compensation was forty-two pounds current money of Kentucky. The deed was witnessed by Reuben Guthrie, Gabriel Springer and Jessie Guthrie.
This is what we know of Henry Guthrie's life. There are several women who have joined the Daughters of the American Revolution on his service, and at least one man who is a member of the Sons of the American Revolution.
SOURCES:
Deposition of Henry Guthrie before the Circuit Court of the
United States for the District of West Tennessee.
Pension Papers for Henry Guthrie and his widow Nancy Guthrie
Three Pioneer Tennessee Documents
Tenn. Historical Magazine 1 March 1916
Veterans of War of 1812 Buried in Tennessee Compiled by Mary
Hard McCown.
Burnt Records of Fayette Co KY, Cook Publications Vol 2.